Tough Year. Still Managed Some Luck and Success

[PSEhunter]

Griz, I enjoy the compliment. I was blessed to be introduced to the outdoors at a young age by my grandpa and dad. By taking many squirell, doe, and a few small bucks at a younger age, I was able to and mature enough to learn to let deer walk by 8th grade, the age at which most kids (my friends back then) were bragging about the 4 point they shot.

All- I have really enjoyed the insight, opinions, and information from everyone. One other tidbit I may add. Is that as far as herd numbers and legal deer kills, as stated WV allows 3 bucks, and i BELIEVE 10 deer total!?! if you play your cards right and buy/use tags in correct times. While I do not know how I would quite feel about an actual antler restriction in WV (although it would help), I would just like to see them change the law to only being allowed to kill one buck during rifle season. I honestly think the quality of bucks would slowly start to improve if this was implemented. Again, guys who can kill the first 4-6 point they see Monday morning, can go back out Tuesday morning and shoot the second buck they see, a 5 point... Although this clearly wouldnt fix or change all problems, but anything is a start. WV, did make a move this year, by going in the direction of other states that two deer can be killed in one day, but not two bucks. Thus, people must take a doe between killing bucks. That is the case regardless of whether you kill a doe the same day. While I give WV game wardens/dnr some respect for implementing that, I dont see any progress to be made there. Somebody who wants to kill 2 bucks in 2 days, could simpy have someone who wants meat kill a doe and check it in themselves as their doe kill, thus allowing them to shoot a second buck the following day, like all prior years. My point, I do not feel WV implementing the rule a doe must be killed between buck kills, was a good solution. Although it may be a start, I personally feel simply reducing the legal buck kill from 3 to 2, or especially being only allowed ONE RIFLE buck, would help. Feel free to give insight or critique.

[nomad_archer]

PSE just to ease your concerns in PA the restrictions are simple and straight forward. In a some parts of the state the bucks must have 3 up off including the main beam and brow tines dont count on one side. In the rest and majority of the state a deer must have 3 points on one side including the brow tine and main beam. So that is something that does work well. In PA it is one buck regardless of weapon and because the doe tags are region specific and limited most people can get 2 does tags sometimes three if it is a special regs area. Usually I end up with 3 tags two doe and one buck and that is plenty for me. The ability to take 3 bucks and 10 total deer is crazy for most people. Now in PA there are special regs areas where you could if you wanted get as many does as you were willing to buy doe tags for but those are the counties around the major cities Pittsburgh and Philly and access is tough and to get an additional doe tag after the draw in those counties you have to go the the county court house which is an additional pain.

[Griz]

Its good your state (PA) has taken some steps to inprove the quality of bucks. After reading your explination to PSE on the restrictions, it all looks like common sense. I wish my state (NH) would try to do something as PA. Yah as you said people will complain but it could make the herd have more mature animals in it. As in PA, hunter will get use to it, and I think in the long run everyone would have more success. Its a good thing we all still have Ohio, its just a longer drive for me than you.

[mrbb]

well to add a little more
in PA the antler restriction did more than just allow bucks to age, it allowed Older healither bucks to breed, thus why many 4-5-6 pointers you see now, are just bigger 4-5-6 pointers than in past yrs, having/allowing older bucks to breed, makes for healthier off spring, making allowing for better first racks
WV I think and sorry if others don't feel so, they have the 2-3 bucks a yr deal, to control herd numbers, as they have a LOT of deer, just shooting more doe, won't solve the probelm in whole(would sure be cool to have a higher buck to doe ratio however LOL)
so till they get numbers down to more managiable level, they have the high harvest option, just look into how many deer vehicle collisions WV has, it shows there is a true safety factor, about too many deer, they have
just ause a state has a one or two buck or"X" amount of bucks allowed per yr, doesn't always show the best picture, there are many states where you can kill like a bucka day for months, be it any deer a day too.
and they have been like that for yrs and yrs and yrs, and they still have a lot of deer
QDM's biggest factor should always be what the land can provide for , in deer numbers,
and this needs in my opinion to be adressed a LOT better in smaller zone, units, or what ever you want to call them
the way we mamage deer now, is, doing the job, but can sure be done a ton better
said it many times here, a mile down the road, can be a huge difference in land quality, and deer numbers
when you look to manage numbers, in area's as big as counties or zones, its a hard nut to crack , just too many factors to make every unit/zone or?? done well
a healthy herd should be the goal, of deer managment, not the size of the bucks, but overall herd health
and that means age structure of all age's
and that typically means if done right, big bucks will be a lot more of the herd, than just having lots of 1.5 yr old deer come hunting season

as for hunter's age's
in my area, its a pretty good mix of old timers, and many in the 25-40 yr old age's
far too many of the older of both these age class's, are outlaws, to a point, they all tend to feel they HAVE to kill a buck, and its GOD given right to do so, and Many feel that means, at any means needed to do so!
meat hunters, I wish would stick to doe's, they would be doing all hunters a favor, as well as the deer herd
just shooting a buck, to say you shot a buck is a sad reason to hunt
I am NOT saying hunters should be trophy buck hunters, any buck can be a trophy, I agree here
but to keep a healthy herd, placing an antler restriction, helps to help more to keep a herd healthy, and just make BIG bucks
so since we cannot rely on self control many times, they work best with the AR's
also, lets not forget, when PA started the AR(antler restriction)
it was like a 25 dollar fine IF you got caught, pretty sure its still only a 25 dollar fine now too!
many folks seen that as, well a roll of the dice, and still shoot any buck they want
wish the fine was a lot higher!, that would maybe have helped spped up the improvements we gained here in PA!

[OHPA]

I agree with many of all of your statements. I use to live in Pgh. and now live in Cleve. My father and I have a cabin in NW. PA(Warren County). I now hunt both OH. and PA. Warren, Pa. is all mountains and I have hunted there for 35 years. Yes, I used to see more deer, but it was rare for me to see a racked buck. I must say though that the last two years in PA, I have seen more deer than normal. I took three with a bow out of the last 4 years in Pa. All descent racked bucks for PA. I hold out for larger ones in OH as I know the potential here.

I wait until November to start hunting PA. The first day for me this year(Nov. 4th), I saw about 14 deer and about 5 were bucks. Shooters were not in range. This is all sitting in my tree stand. The next morning, I saw a doe and then I took my 8 pointer. I stayed in my tree stand for about two hours after I shot since I did not see it drop. During that two hours, I saw about 5 more does and two more bucks. Granted, it was the rut and they were feeding on acorns in my area.

I was then done hunting in Pa for the year. No doe license for me. It is tradition for my dad and I to travel to there Friday after Thanksgiving through Wed. for gun opener in Pa. Special time for us. I did not hunt, but I did what I call a "mock" hunt this year opening day. I sit in my chosen spot for the day to help me find good future spots for hunting opening day. I had a great opening day(without a gun). I saw 19 deer total. Eight were bucks and five were shooters for me. One was possibly the biggest one I have seen there in many years. All this with possibly the fewest shots I have ever heard opening day. There are definitely less hunters in my area these days.

I like the antler restrictions in Pa. as I want to see larger bucks and I am definitely seeing larger bucks.

I also hunt about 40 minutesto one hour outside of Cleveland(depending on my spot I choose) and see fewer deer than Pa., but the fact that a trophy can be around the corner(I see them on my trail cams) keeps me in the stand hoping. I love both states, but the mountains of Pa. are in my blood. Nothing like the mountains for me. I have enjoyed this thread.
Thanks all.

[PSEhunter]

That in itself is the reason we all continue to head to Ohio, or are always looking to gain access to more land in Ohio. Not so much what we have killed, but what COULD be killed.